The Colt Archives...Factory Letters & Other Topics

From approximately c. 2012 to ...:2018

 I'm Paul Szymaszek from the Colt Archives and I've noticed a good number of threads which have factory letter & record questions, which I have seen answered correctly and incorrectly. I'm happy to answer any questions anyone here has about either our process, what kind of records are available, and even try to answer questions on some of the inconsistencies or oddities that you all may have seen in factory letters.

I won't be able to answer questions on "does this gun look right" or anything like that (as there are FAR more knowledgeable people than myself when it comes to the physical characteristics), but anything related to the documentation contained in the archives at Colt I'll be more than happy to answer. I'd prefer if any questions come through this thread rather than through private messages, or maybe we could make a sticky thread for it, that way any questions & answers can be shared & available for the entire community to use.

I don't think there is a cutoff date on the serial number lookup website. It is just an incomplete database that does not contain every model, or serial number, and there are also some errors in there too that we have found. Its a work in progress, but our more technologically inclined people at Colt are working on completing it. I have received many a panicked phone call from people who don't think their gun exists.

Please view the attached link to the Colt Archive Services Website for general information, sample letters, and ordering information.

The archive office has (15) six and a half foot high filing cabinets that contain the original shipping ledgers ranging from the civil war records up through the 1940's. The majority of these records up to that point have been digitized (aka scanned) for preservation - as many on this forum know, the condition of some of the records results in the dreaded "no record" gun, so preservation was important. In addition to our office, there is a second room that contains the 1950's through the mid 1990's, and that room is about the size of half a gymnasium, 6 shelves high, stuffed to the brim with invoices.

There are also multiple areas with custom shop orders, factory orders, and various other records that have been accumulated over the years.

This is an ongoing process that we personally work on continually - many people have asked why we can't get them all digitized and organized, but with the extreme variations in the style of record keeping (some are nice and easy and logical, some are an absolute nightmare), the sheer amount of the records, etc. you would need someone very familiar with the records to scan these in a way that would be useful for myself, Bev, Joe, etc. The process is done by us in between researching . We also have to account for which models take the most time vs. demand for letters on that gun - this is why SAA's are quick and organized (these were done a while back, well before my time), and an open top pocket .22 makes us cringe every three months when we get a request for one (sometimes hours of research for a $200 gun...). After getting everything scanned / preserved, then we have the process of trying to link serial numbers with pages in books so that some lookups that used to take hours can now only take minutes.

Any way of requesting is fine. They all end up in the same place. As far as turnaround time, right now we are at about 100 days on the standard service, and some have been getting done in 60 (but I wouldn't count on that!). Most of the stuff we are completing right now has either come in at the end of August to the middle of September. We never forget requests, but there are some that will take longer to research.

For instance, If you have a nice, straightforward 1st generation SAA, you could get that back pretty darn quick. If you have a rare or unusual configuration, or prototype, or someone made a boo boo writing a number down in 1920, you could end up being a lot longer, because a lot of unusual things ship quite far out of sequence. Anyone who has a Bankers Special on the forum has probably seen like a 1938 shipment for a 1932 serial number and done a double take. I remember having an expedited order for a .44 Russian nickel New Service that had a date to the shipping room in 1929, and didn't ship out until 1940. So, that took almost a week to find, mixing it in with the phone calls and other requests just because the configuration was unusual. We do not give up easily on requests. If you get a no record letter, well, that is the truth.
 

What is the most requested firearm?

SAA's are still the undisputed king of factory letters. Pythons probably second. After that, really couldn't say. Maybe US marked 1911's and 1911A1's. Also, surprisingly, i seem to get a lot of requests on New Army & New Navy, because there seems to be a lot of them still around for one reason or another.

Cost for re-issues of letters

$35 (or, $31.50 if you are a CCA member) and those usually are a couple weeks. We always double check the research on them to ensure 100% accuracy and, of course, authenticity. They are usually quick because we have a shipping date already which makes it easy for us to check in most cases.

The retype service is a $35.00 fee. We will double check the research on it to ensure the information is accurate, and then resend a letter addressed to you (or however you want addressed) to you, usually in a couple of weeks. We get a good number of these requests to have either the name and address updated, removed to read "To Whom It May Concern" or something generic, or just to update an old Marty Huber or Ron Wagner letter from the old days.

EDIT: For a retype, a copy of the original letter must be submitted.

Just a small piece of advice to all who letter their guns (or, have a number a older letters). I suggest having photocopies (or electronic scans) of all letters, either newly purchased or the older letters that may come with some guns. The reason for this is in the (surprisingly common) case of a lost letter or just wanting to have one updated or personalized, we offer retype services at a reduced cost of $35.00. The existing copy of the letter allows us to quickly locate the information to verify it without doing a full research. This applies to ALL factory letters, whether going all the way back to the Ron Wagner days, up to current day guns.

When requesting both the date of manufacture and the shipping date for a gun, does it slow the process or does finding one date lead you to the other?

Date of manufacture is usually in with the production books, AKA the place we start, so it doesn't slow down the research. We don't include them except by request mostly because they aren't available for everything, and even their inclusion in the production books is inconsistent. Most guns ship within a short period of time from the manufacture date. I think there are cases it is helpful, if someone questions a shipping date that doesn't match the blue book guide or the serial number lookup on the Colt website, or if you have something unusual that shipped far out from where you'd expect, it could explain a late shipment if you have a manufacture date in, say 1930 and a shipping date of 1935.

How are serial numbers assigned? I just compared notes with another forum member. We both have New Service .357s that went to the Androscoggin Co. Sheriff's Office in Lewiston ME. They are over two thousand digits apart in serial number. However, they were shipped together in the same lot of 10 revolvers on the same day in 1941.

Seemingly at random. There are very, very few instances of consecutive grouped together serial numbers being shipped. Something like that, they probably would have just taken a number of however many the PD ordered in that configuration and paid no attention to grouping the numbers together.

I have lettered New Service, Shooting Masters and New Service Targets and none advise what type of grips were on the gun when shipped. Is there any way to check further?

Grips, in the majority of cases where the gun was shipped with the standard relative to the time period for that model, will typically be not listed. So, if you know what grips would have been standard, thats what they likely left the factory with. There are some cases where they did write down the standard, for example checkered wood or rubber, but the majority of stock gripped guns would not have their specific grips listed.

Question; when you say the ledgers don't reveal the type of grips, are you talking about for only the Officer's model? I see grip type listed on a lot of letters, pearl, checkered wood, etc. What percentage of the listed guns would you say do have the grip type listed?

That's a tough question, but I will venture a guess just from what I see. Anything special, like pearl or ivory, will always be listed. These are, of course, and additional cost, work, etc. The time period standard for every model is not listed very often, not just specific to the Officers. If I were to guess I would say maybe 5% to 10%. This is sort of a wild guess - there are some time period specific models that for a few years they have "CW" for checkered wood or "R" for rubber written specifically, so it goes on the letter, but more often than not if standard for the time period, you get a "not listed" on the record.

I have a general question in respect to the amount of information included in an archive letter. Will you always include all available information, or does one need to specify certain pieces of information one would like included?

All available information is included, so you would not have to specify that you "special features" included in the letter. We provide what is exactly specified in the shipping ledger - sometimes, it is more detailed. In this case, a 1955 shipped gun would have a full address written on the invoice, as they were using actual invoices at that time (starting in 1946). The 1924 shipped gun would simply state in the record the specs of the gun, serial numbers, and then "Murta Appleton & Company" (or some abbreviated form) with no address (but we know they were in Philadelphia) then the date of shipment. It all depends on the timeframe, individual recorder of the information, and what they would have considered important to record at the time.

As far as dates of manufacture, these are available by request. We do not include these automatically. The reason - MANY do not have them. Recording of the assembly / manufacture date is inconsistent at best. It also (in my opinion - others may and will disagree does not provide relevant information usually (to me) - shipping and manufacture dates are very often only a couple days / weeks apart. The only instance I can think of it being important is for a gun being shipped far out of sequence due to potential unusual configuration, confirming exact year for legal reasons, etc.

When guns are shipped in multiples are the serial numbers always/often/rarely/never, etc listed in numerical order?  Do the ledgers contain handwritten or typed entries or both?

Rarely. The only instances that I can think of off the top of my head are early 1911 US Government Shipments, US government New Army / New Navy were shipped in consecutive groupings (ie, serial numbers 1-500 shipped to such and such, 501-1100 shipped to such and such, and so on). This is for standard production stuff. I'm sure there are a couple of other smaller instances that I don't encounter as often. I think the New Service 1917's were shipped in consecutive groupings based off the butt numbers.

The ledgers are a combination of printed & handwritten. From our earliest records (1861) through WWII, each number was handwritten (usually in cursive) along with the specifications & shipping information. Beginning in WWII (with 1911A1's) you start to see typewritten invoicing.

The ledgers are typically on grid lines paper - specs of the gun on the left (caliber, barrel, finish, grips, unusual features) in a larger margin, followed by each number. To save time / space, they would write the numbers like this usually:

123456 457 525 665 124333 555 777

The first number, obviously, would be serial 123456. However, the next ones would be 123457, 123525, 123665, then 124333, 124555, 124777 and so on.

A question about calibers in the records: I have lettered a US Army 1901 in .38 Colt from 1901, a Police Positive in .38 New Police from 1915, and an Army Special in .38 Special from 1924. In all three cases, the letter gives the caliber simply as .38/c. 

You are exactly correct. specific caliber listing were, for the most part, recorded as .38/c, .32/c and so on. There are some exceptions, quite a few actually. Off the top of my head, I can think of .44 Russian, .38 colt, .32 colt, .32 police, and the .38/200 you mention. why they recorded some as specific as they did, I don't know. I don't notice any rhyme or reason to it just simply that sometimes they did it. We all know they weren't keeping track of production numbers. You don't see consistency in the caliber specifics (.38 special vs. .38) until the days of paper invoicing Post world war ii.

Question: One's credit card doesn't get charged until the request has been started/completed. How long after seeing one's credit card has been billed can we expect the letter to be in one's hand?

Does seeing the cc charge mean that the letter has been completed and mailed out? Or does it mean that research has begun, and it could be another couple weeks until completed and mailed?

CC Charge means the research is completed. Once done, the research goes into typing. We type a batch of letters once a week, usually Monday or Tuesday and they go into the mailroom then. So, once the charge appears on the CC, you should have it within 2 weeks.

Just a couple of FYI's, as I do receive a large number of phone calls with these questions. From the day that we charge your credit card, you can expect the letter within two weeks. Our letters are typed & mailed once a week in large batches, usually Monday or Tuesday.

Additionally, the confirmation numbers that you receive on standard (non-expedited) orders are numbers for a dated file. For instance, this week's confirmation number is 731 (ie, July 31). This is a good barometer to know how close you are to the expected turnaround time. We include ship dates always, as these are recorded 100% of the time.

If a manufacture or assembly date is availabel, you can request it and we will include it at no additional charge. These are only kept sporadically. Anything before 1907 there are no manufacture dates. After that, they are kept somewhat sporadically through the 1960's, then disappear again in the 1970's, and then sporadically through the 90's prior to the Assault Weapons Ban, and then religiously after September 1994.

Paul, previously you mentioned that each of you has your specific area of expertise. What is yours?

I wouldn't say so much expertise, as it is gravitating towards specific types of research. All of us have to know enough about every model to speak intelligently about them, however, I research mostly post WWII to early 1990's guns. I have likely seen all of the variations of most models of guns during this time frame (except limited / special editions - way too many to count) and I can usually speak intelligently about them without having to consult any of my reference materials. After this i'd say pre-war DA's and semi-autos. I don't research as many antiques - when I do I often have to consult with Bev, especially on Lightning Rifles, shotguns (if i had to guess, i think the 1878 Hammer shotgun is her favorite model), and those little pocket guns like New Lines and open tops.

My collecting interest is very scatterbrained, though. I don't have a specific time frame or model. My two favorite guns I own are my 8" nickel Trooper MKV and my 1898 New Army. I have a "see it - like it - buy it (and occasionally regret it) mentality in that regard.

Another question that comes up relatively often is that of possible "factory errors".

We have seen things such as incorrect rollmarks (ie, GOVERNMENT MODEL stamped on Commanders, upside down rampant colts, upside down rollmarks, etc.). Just as an FYI, we are unable to document these types of situations. Had the error been noticed prior to being shipped, it would have been corrected. As with any type of large scale manufacturing, I have no doubt that these situations certainly do happen, however in 100% of cases we would be unable to document such situations. I post this because I have received MANY phone calls from unfortunate buyers of these guns. They are being advertised as factory errors. They are then being told to
us for documentation, and in most cases people are being told by a dishonest seller that they have already talked to us and everything will check out. They are then spending significant dollars on them & then calling archives for documentation which we cannot provide, then are stuck with an incorrectly roll-marked gun. So, PLEASE be careful if considering a purchase of a gun like this and be aware that there is no way for us to document these guns.

What is the largest number of letter requests you have received from a single source at the same time? Was this from a retailer? Collector?

We had one for 80-something a little while back. One for 60-something about 6 months ago. We get a pretty good number of 20 & 30+ requests. These large requests nearly always come from collectors who have either recently acquired a large collection, had an expensive day at Rock Island or James Julia, or have just never lettered their guns before.

Most retailers / sellers seem to either A.) have a single gun they are trying to make bank on, or B.) get a collection of guns where they feel (sometimes rightfully so) that a letter won't help them enough financially on all of them and will only letter a few, or C.) don't let their stuff sit in their inventories long enough to accumulate large orders.

Paul in 2010:

The website has always been a point of contention with accurate years and missing data.

It was hastily compiled a few years ago. Hastily done means, well, errors. Some serial ranges, models, etc. are admittedly pretty brutal on the website. We do expect to have a significantly improved database up sometime in the middle of next year (2010). At this point, in my honest opinion, using Proofhouse,  Pate's or Sheldon or anyone else who has compiled ranges) is better than our database. The archive department was not included in the last compilation of the numbers, so we are exploring some options of making it as user friendly as possible and significantly more accurate.

More recent:

This is an ongoing process that we personally work on continually - many people have asked why we can't get them all digitized and organized, but with the extreme variations in the style of record keeping (some are nice and easy and logical, some are an absolute nightmare), the sheer amount of the records, etc. you would need someone very familiar with the records to scan these in a way that would be useful for myself, Bev, Joe, etc. The process is done by us in between researching.

We also have to account for which models take the most time vs. demand for letters on that gun - this is why SAA's are quick and organized (these were done a while back, well before my time), and an open top pocket .22 makes us cringe every three months when we get a request for one (sometimes hours of research for a $200 gun...). After getting everything scanned / preserved, then we have the process of trying to link serial numbers with pages in books so that some lookups that used to take hours can now only take minutes. I'm sure this is clear as mud....

Date of manufacture is usually in with the production books, AKA the place we start, so it doesn't slow down the research. We don't include them except by request mostly because they aren't available for everything, and even their inclusion in the production books is inconsistent.

Most guns shipped within a short period of time from the manufacture date. I think there are cases it is helpful, if someone questions a shipping date that doesn't match the blue book guide or the serial number lookup on the Colt website, or if you have something unusual that shipped far out from where you'd expect, it could explain a late shipment if you have a manufacture date in, say 1930 and a shipping date of 1935.

Paul in response to accusations of 'fake factory letters:

I just want to add one more thing - the OVERWHELMING majority of letters are genuine. And by overwhelming, I mean 99.999%. If i had to guess how many counterfeits I have seen, i would say it is 20-25 over my 3+ years, with several multiple repeat offenders as the guns & letters pass from buyer to buyer, with all being very, very poor. During this time, we have sent out somewhere in the ballpark of 15,000 letters. I don't think that extreme caution would be needed for anything other than the 3" Pythons I have mentioned. I have not seen a fake that I can recall for another model. I think that one or two unscrupulous individuals altered a few letters on Pythons they had and they have shown up multiple times as the scam passes from one person to the next.

Just one more thing to add. The fakes, and i cannot stress this enough, have been crude & rudimentary and have all been identified as fakes nearly instantly upon even the lowest resolution scanned images. They are not sophisticated fakes by any stretch, and I believe are used to dupe unsuspecting, uneducated, but enthusiastic buyers believing they are getting the deal of a lifetime. Most of us on this forum do not fall into these categories. I do imagine suspected fakes submitted to me will be very few and very far between (although I'm sure I will receive a number of 100% genuine letters sent to me out of worry as well), as they have been in the past. The majority of the collecting community and most of the members of this site will be able to identify counterfeits quite easily. We are not in a darkroom using magic inks or special lights to know! Only a single fake that has ever been brought to our attention (and this includes Beverly's much longer tenure with the Archives) was sophisticated enough (and i use the term sophisticated VERY loosely) that it took us more than a moment to identify.

Paul on T and S markings:

I've seen some discussion recently about "targeted" revolvers, and a supposed accompanying "T" marking stamped above / below the serial number. It is my understanding that there would be nothing physically stamped on the guns to indicate if a gun was targeted, and that these letters and numbers would be assembler and / or inspector marks. While I posted this in the revolvers section, there are numerous autos which were selected and / or targeted as well.

My understanding of "targeted" is that it means the gun was selected to meet certain accuracy requirements for a customer.

My understanding of "selected" is that it means the gun was selected to meet certain aesthetic requirements.

Both of these descriptions appear in factory ledgers, however, they are unusual. Out of 5,000 factory letters in 2017, "targeted" appeared in only six letters.

Are there archives existing from Colt?s London office?

Some of the records of the Colt Agency in London are held by the Hartford State Library & Archive. This is within the main Colt Archive that this facility holds. If you Google that site there will be a download available of the Colt Archive and you will be able to see the records they have for the London Agency, which go up to its closure in 1913.

The London Armoury Co. took over the Colt agency for the UK at this point but the whereabouts of the LAC records are unknown, I expect they were destroyed in the 1950's.

Who is the biggest pain in your backside?

Someone who tried to convince me to put something in a letter that wasn't in the record, offer a bribe, leave me 14 voicemails in a 30 minute span, try to get out of paying for a letter, ask me "what my system says" about an 1849 Pocket, try to negotiate letter pricing, ask me 30 times in different ways to value a firearm, call me two weeks after an order is placed to "see how the research is going", ask me how the gun could be made in 1979 if it was patented in 1871, or told me that you have your 38WCF stuffed with +P .38 specials cocked and ready to go can you shoot it why not they fit.

2016

 We have begun the process of digitizing and (at least partially) indexing the significant majority of our records. As many of you may already know, nearly all of our records dating from 1861 through about 1945 have been digitally scanned, frozen in time for the sake of preservation. There has also been a small amount of indexing done so that records can be quickly located. Beginning with the post-war period and through approximately 1994 (where the last of our paper records end), records will be undergoing a similar scanning process. The goal is to have these records to be significantly more "searchable" by a number of terms, be it serial numbers, invoice numbers, etc. so that we can extract information more quickly. The benefits of this project include, first and foremost, the permanent preservation of the historical records of Colt during this time frame, but we also hope that it leads to a significant downward trend in turnaround time for our customers to receive letters. It will be a long process, as there are literally millions of pieces of paper, in various degrees of condition, various methods of filing, and various degrees of organization. The hope is to have much of this completed sometime during 2017.

We have been running slightly behind on our normal course of research recently due to the time spent on getting this project underway. However, now that the project is underway, we should be able to get back to our normal schedule of getting the vast majority of letters out in under 90 days.

We have most letters going back approximately 7 years or so (and some a little bit further). These will not always have the name of the individual person who ordered the letter, as these are the actual letters, many of which are addressed with the generic "To Whom It May Concern" or "Dear Colt Firearms Collector" heading. This is one of the reasons I suggest making a digital or hard copy of any letters, so in the case of a missing one, it is easy for us to find it based on date, serial number, ship date, etc. We do not make notations on the records or keep a running list of guns which have been lettered, or by whom.

Would the archives consider including date of manufacture on letters as standard information? I believe the customer has to request its inclusion on letters currently.

No problem! It has been brought up in a few threads, maybe not this one (I'm too lazy to search through the whole thing!). Anyway, this day may be coming. In some cases it is relatively simple to look up, in some cases, not so much. In some cases, the manufacture date / assembly date is not clearly spelled out and we will err on the side of caution. Anything pre-1907, and anything post-1972 until about 1994 (you can guess why THAT year is important ) doesn't have an assembly date (usually). The reason it hasn't really been included has been because there is still a very small percentage of people who request manufacture dates. Whether it is because people dont know it's available, or because people aren't interested, that I don?t know. There are experienced collectors who are religious about assembly dates, and experienced collectors who could care less. For the time being, it will still be a request only basis.

I will say, personally, that I find assembly dates useful for some things ? guns that sat around in shipping for a long time so the ship date is far away from the assembly date, guns which may have shipped much farther out than when particular features may have been changed, etc. In these instances, I will usually include it without a request because it can be helpful. Most assembly dates are usually a few days or weeks before, so the instances I am talking about are somewhat few.

2018...TBC